PlaneTalk

[Mike]

So Canon very thoughtfully waited until I bought a new 50D on Friday before announcing the long-rumoured 7D today.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090104canoneos7dpreview.asp

18mp (perhaps a bit excessive, especially on an APS-C sensor), 19-point AF system, still with a 1.6x crop sensor, so basically a considerable up-spec on the 50D. Different battery and grip from the x0D series. It also incorporates this week's latest fad for HD video capture (I wonder how many photographers will REALLY use this feature once the novelty wears off)

If nothing else, it should cause the price of a 50D to plummet!!!!!!

Darren, have you seen one yet?

Not sure what the price will be, I'd guess somewhere midway between a 50D and 5D Mark II
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[Robbo]

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-canon-eos-7d-digital-slr-camera-body/p1033215

Warehouse Express pre-order price is £1699
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[EHVB]

Going to Sun'n Fun in spring 2010. Now consider flying via NY and buy one there. Those prices are crazy is Europe. Bought my 5D2 last week, took me some time to buy one, as I already planned to do so in 2008 already.However, I got one, and I like it very much so far. BW Roger

[Mike]

[Robbo]

Even accounting for additional taxes we're being stitched up like kippers at that price.
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Life - Live it, Love it. Remembering the Chipmunk Fondler.

My Flickr Album - updated with images from 14th August Old Warden show

[EHVB]

Sign in price here is almost 1800 Euro's. About the same price as in the UK. BW Roger

[Tempestnut]

For you guys who are Canon shooters this looks to be a significant camera and it is strange why Canon is being so muted about it. It has a build quality a cut above the XXD range, and incorporates many of the electronic features of the 1D series. Not even the 5D gets this. It has a far better implementation of the HD video feature and this is I think in response to the Panasonic GH1. The larger sensor of the 5D is no advantage in video work for reasons I don't understand or care about.

The other issue I have read about is that the 1Ds III and 5D out resolve many of the Canon lenses including some of the well known and expensive L lenses (zooms) so maybe 18Mp is a sweet spot for some of those lenses? Who knows?

Without having examined the minutia of the camera the only obvious omission I see is no articulating screen. Perhaps a bit of not invented here, or too hard to package? I know many say they don't need live-view but once you have used it you can't be without it, and without the articulating screen it’s not as useful to use. Catch 22.

Perhaps the 7D is an admission that the larger sensor is not the be all and end all of quality digital photography. The large sensor is certainly not where the profit is hence the cheaper Sony a850 offering that is essentially a consumer camera with a large sensor. This ignores the fact that most consumers can not afford the lenses necessary to resolve greater that 20Mp. In fact nearly all the lenses designed in the film days resolved less than this, as do all the kit lenses.

Anyway happy shooting
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[DamienB]

Looks like a good airshow camera alright, bags of pixels to crop away, 1.6 crop sensor, decent AF (if it works) and decent speed.

As the season is drawing to a close I'll let the sport shooters work out the bugs over the winter though - and let that ridiculous dollar/pound parity degrade to a more sane price!
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[Bjorn]

Has anyone on this forum bought one of these yet? Would be helpful to get some comments on that new fast and accurate AF system, especially in servo mode. I know it's winter and off season and everything, but still.
Bird photographers seem happy. Feathers, wood, aluminium...does it matter?

[Robbo]

One of the attendees at this week's CPS roadshow spent quite a while bending the Canon rep's ear about his recently purchased 7D. The main complaint was noise and lack of detail.

Here's a very comprehensive review:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-7D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx
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Life - Live it, Love it. Remembering the Chipmunk Fondler.

My Flickr Album - updated with images from 14th August Old Warden show

[Bjorn]

Really!?
I have read about bad copies in the first batches, but that was fixed. I thought...

[Robbo]

I'm also aware of another example that was returned to Canon with similar issues. Canon said that it was within spec and did nothing to it. The camera was returned to the retailer in exchange for another model.

The Canon techie's response on Tuesday was that noise levels were similar to the 400D. The owner wasn't particularly happy with this considering the price differential between a 7D and a 400D and he said that the output fell far short of the 5D MkI that he'd traded up from. To be fair, a 1.6 sensor's not going to be a direct comparison to a full frame sensor so maybe the naming convention creates an unrealistic expectation and it should have been slotted into the x0D series?

The new focusing and metering systems are the main attractions of this camera, it would be a shame if they're let down by a lack of clarity. However, it's still early days and early adopters often bear the brunt of carrying out the real beta testing of new products the 1D MKIII being a prime example of this.

The first wave of press reviews can be a little too superficial to highlight product weaknesses that would be a particular concern to aviation photographers so it can be more beneficial to get feedback directly from users. The trouble is that during the tail end of last season and during the off-season few people have bought 7Ds and those that have haven't had much opportunity to play with them under ideal conditions. Those who have been using 7Ds don't appear to have gone out of their way to sing the camera's praises from the rooftops - yet.

I'm sure that Darren will have had a play with a 7D - any opinions?
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Life - Live it, Love it. Remembering the Chipmunk Fondler.

My Flickr Album - updated with images from 14th August Old Warden show

[Darren H]

I did indeed test the 7D Rob - and on aircraft too

It's a very impressive camera, and there were no noise issues on my testing. One problem that was identified (and the same applies to the 1D MkIV) is that early adopters were using the interim ACR and not the DPP software. This showed a lot more noise as it was not a full Raw code crack from Adobe. The latest ACR is fine with the 7D, but 1d Mk IV owners will need to use the DPP software until a new ACR comes out that is FULLY compatible.

As for the 7D for airshows - it's going to prove very popular, especially with that 1.6x crop. Focussing is excellent (but not in the same league as the 1D MkIV).
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Darren

www.focalplaneimages.co.uk

[Lee Howard]

Ah, the 7D. My recommendation? Don't touch it with a bargepole!

Having tried converting RAW files using several different methods (including ACR in PS4 and the DPP software), none of them produced anything like a decent image. Noise was very high (shots taken at 200 ASA looked like they were taken at 1600 ASA), facial features were blotchy, detail was mushy. And all this for an 18Mp camera. In its defence, the rest of the spec was very impressive, and handling was very nice. But what use is a camera that takes rotten photos? The images were, frankly, no better than those produced by my 10Mb pocket point-and-shoot.

The 5DII, in comparison, produces beautifully sharp, detail-packed images; yes, okay, so it has 3Mp more, but 18Mp shouldn't be that much different.

It's all very well making comparisons to the 1D range but I suspect that, as those of us who have to part with our hard-earned cash in order to be in a position to own/use one are probably few and far between, I doubt it is a very meaningful one. The #D range should, in theory, be a viable, cost-effective alternative to the 1D range; but clearly, with this particular model, that simply ain't the case.

Now, if it is a case of early models having issues which later ones do not, then Canon ought to be 'fessing up and fixing the problems. But Borehamwood state that there is nothing wrong with them. One can only assume, therefore, that this is an indirect admission of an inherent design flaw: it works perfectly fine at producing bad images.

Canon, get your act together, please! Is it any wonder a number of 'toggies are making the expensive move across to Nikon?

Lee
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[amitch]

[Insight]

I have been getting on well with mine. If you get the exposure right you can get some excellent images.

These were taken with the 7D and are the closest I have been able to get to aircraft All are at ISO100 taken in reasonable but not ideal light:









I have also seen it produce some cracking bird images from other photographers at ISO settings of 800 upwards.

Here is a test shot I took at ISO6400:


And another:


Both of those 2 were out of camera from RAW processed with ACR. All the sharpening sliders were all the way to the left as were the NR sliders.

Not bad for 6400 really.
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[Darren H]

Right - now having played at length with both the 7D and the 1D MkIV I have come to a decision.

As much as I like the 1D MkIV for it's focussing and speed, it's a lot of money for a lack of resolution - especially as the high ISO performance is nothing exciting.

The 7D has excellent focussing and if you keep it below ISO800, then the noise levels are fine. You have the added advantage of a 1.6 crop and a big saving.

With this in mind, I have changed my mind to buy a MkIV and I therefore plan to get a 7D to use as a back up for my 1Ds MkII until a new 5D MkIII or 3D (assuming one appears) is available. This way, I will get a new full-frame model that is likely to have improved AF.
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Darren

www.focalplaneimages.co.uk

[EHVB]

Recently I replaced my photogear, going for a 5D2 and a 7D. At iso 100 and 200 I notice no difference between the two (haven't tested 400 and up on the 7D), an pics are as crisp as can be. AF on the 7D is comparable with my 1D2N, and is much, much better than on the 10/20/30/40/50 series. Shot over 700 testpics this weekend, on starting airliners with lenses up to 500 mm, and only 1 pic was out of focus. 7D seems an excelent action camera. The 5D2 I uses in/at musea, statics or other moments, when no cropping or super fast AF is needed. Didn't use DPP, but Photoshop for the RAW conversion, no problem at all.

BW Roger

[DamienB]

Do I detect another bit of Canon kit that might be great if you buy one that wasn't made on a Friday afternoon?
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Wife and other things to support - buy some aviation photo prints and gifts or aviation-themed embroidered clothing now!!

[amitch]